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    Karl
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:14 am

    sick how?

    or how sick? hah.


    Last edited by Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Newmantopia

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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:16 am

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    Karl
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:17 am

    thats one sick ducati + bonus tits
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:23 am

    Karl wrote:
    4. "I hope so, Matt." do you think this makes you sound wise or something? it makes you look like a [holding my tongue again].

    Damn, and I was so ready to pull out my rubber-glue argument.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:27 am

    holdin tongue when shit gets heated, always a good idea Happy Matt
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:37 pm

    Karl wrote:why do you think the argument has to be based purely out of logic to be effective? emotion and empathy are premises in pretty much all of our logic. i don't think you're getting my tone when i'm talking about empathy. i APPROVE of the argument based in empathy. wtf is so hard to get about that?

    If you believe emotion is a premise of all logic, then why did you premise your position, in part, on the notion that is no logical argument against the meat industry?? If you were using "logic" to just represent any argument which is not empathetic, I find that confusing.

    Just because you're approving of my argument doesn't mean everything you say makes sense or resonates well with me. Some of the things you said just don't jive with my perspective. Particularly:

    Karl wrote:people who think that they're making headway in converting the world to vegetarianism one person at a time are completely deluded.

    ...I found infelicitous. To me this seemed like a rationalization for an apathetic approach.
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    K$tu

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    Re: Saw...

    Post  K$tu on Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:36 pm

    You think that the entire world is going to stop eating meat. That's why you're deluded. Animals eat meat, and no one can stop them!
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  K$tu on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:32 pm

    It's respectable to say that you can change your (or a few people's) mind(s) about eating meat. But anyone's mind you change will be a special instance of someone who's willing & ready to change. To suggest change of an entire world of people with particular & divided interests, histories, and cultures describes is exactly what's delusional about what you've been saying

    Look at birds. They swoop down, eat a worm. Do you think that we should blame birds, lions, lizards, and frogs for eating other animals? And, what would be their just punishment?
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  K$tu on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:36 pm

    If the entire race of humanity stops eating meat, don't you think that it will sneer other species who commit the vile, primitive, disgusting act?
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:43 pm

    K$tu wrote:You think that the entire world is going to stop eating meat. That's why you're deluded. Animals eat meat, and no one can stop them!
    My problem is not with people eating meat, it's animal cruelty.
    K$tu wrote:It's respectable to say that you can change your (or a few people's) mind(s) about eating meat. But anyone's mind you change will be a special instance of someone who's willing & ready to change. To suggest change of an entire world of people with particular & divided interests, histories, and cultures describes is exactly what's delusional about what you've been saying

    Look at birds. They swoop down, eat a worm. Do you think that we should blame birds, lions, lizards, and frogs for eating other animals? And, what would be their just punishment?
    Once again, any single person convinced of an idea is capable of causing minor (starting an info website), major (forming an initiative organization), or massive change (movement).

    Birds don't have our capacity for reason and nor do they have the option to change.


    Last edited by Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:44 pm

    K$tu wrote:If the entire race of humanity stops eating meat, don't you think that it will sneer other species who commit the vile, primitive, disgusting act?

    You're right, Stu! It's a slippery slope!!
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    Karl
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:52 pm

    Newmantopia wrote:
    Karl wrote:why do you think the argument has to be based purely out of logic to be effective? emotion and empathy are premises in pretty much all of our logic. i don't think you're getting my tone when i'm talking about empathy. i APPROVE of the argument based in empathy. wtf is so hard to get about that?

    If you believe emotion is a premise of all logic, then why did you premise your position, in part, on the notion that is no logical argument against the meat industry?? If you were using "logic" to just represent any argument which is not empathetic, I find that confusing.

    Just because you're approving of my argument doesn't mean everything you say makes sense or resonates well with me. Some of the things you said just don't jive with my perspective. Particularly:

    Karl wrote:people who think that they're making headway in converting the world to vegetarianism one person at a time are completely deluded.

    ...I found infelicitous. To me this seemed like a rationalization for an apathetic approach.

    I said empathy and emotion are premises for PRETTY MUCH all of OUR logic. Mathematics, the logic of computer functions, not emotional. Though the original impetus for creating mathematics was emotional. I clearly, plain as fucking day, said that I meant there was a logical argument against the meat industry, because it isn't sustainable. And I didn't say that I agree with YOUR argument, I think you're horrible at arguing, I said I agree with an argument from empathy. With the whole dog thing, for example, you're trying to twist empathy around as if it somehow represents logic. Its an incredibly ineffective way to argue your stance. I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.

    Saying that I think attempting to convert the entire world to vegetarianism is a bad approach isn't a rationalization of an apathetic approach, its a rationalization for an approach that I think is the more effective one. I told you what I thought is more effective, that would be attempting to shift the meat industry to something that is more local and healthy for us and for animals. But for some reason you're completely ignoring that part of what I said. I guess because it would be inconvenient to acknowledge any of that when you're just trying to blindly chip away at the apathetic strawman you've made out of me.


    Last edited by Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:30 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:54 pm

    Around 40% of India is vegetarian. They have been for a very, very long time. WTF is wrong with the other 60%?! Why haven't they changed all of India by now?

    edit: actually I think its lower than that, hard to tell exactly, though. maybe 30%.

    edit #2: you know, I really regret making this post, its just fueling the argument, when really I just wanna wrap up arguing about my previous posts.
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    KCLU
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  KCLU on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:15 pm

    Karl wrote:I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.
    these wings are tired!
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

    KCLU wrote:
    Karl wrote:I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.
    these wings are tired!

    Eat more meat.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Meow on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:21 pm

    I think everyone's made their point very clearly and this argument (if you can really still call it an argument) is getting stale and repetitive. I chalk the continuation of this thread up to poor comprehensive skills, not that I'm opposed to any new ideas on the topic.


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    Karl
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:21 pm

    Newmantopia wrote:
    KCLU wrote:
    Karl wrote:I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.
    these wings are tired!

    Eat more meat.

    haha. i've actually read that carbs are excellent brain energy.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  K$tu on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:33 pm

    I think I know what's going on here. This thread's creator is trying to accumulate 1,000 legit views; to develop our undeveloped conception CAGC thread critical mass.

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    Meow
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Meow on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:40 pm

    Newmantopia wrote:
    KCLU wrote:
    Karl wrote:I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.
    these wings are tired!

    Eat more meat.

    You get your energy from carbs mostly, not meat. Meat provides protein (as well as many other important things) which assists in rebuilding your muscles after a workout.


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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:49 pm


    Karl wrote:I think you're horrible at arguing,

    ...

    With the whole dog thing, for example, you're trying to twist empathy around as if it somehow represents logic.

    Oh, please.

    Didn't you just say "emotion and empathy are premises in pretty much all of our logic." I'm just pointing out a clear inconsistency in the way you're using the word "logic".

    btw I'm just going to ignore the rest of the statements that represent direct personal attacks because I find them kitschy. And you know how saying things like that makes you look, right?

    Karl wrote:
    Saying that I think attempting to convert the entire world to vegetarianism isn't a rationalization of an apathetic approach, its a rationalization for an approach that I think isn't the most effective one. I told you what I thought is more effective, that would be attempting to shift the meat industry to something that is more local and healthy for us and for animals. But for some reason you're completely ignoring that my of what I said. I guess because it would be inconvenient to acknowledge any of that when you're just trying to blindly chip away at the apathetic strawman you've made out of me.

    So how does one exactly "shift the meat industry to something that is more effective" other than by shifting in DEMAND?


    note: I truncated this to move things forward.


    Last edited by Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:55 pm

    Meow wrote:
    Newmantopia wrote:
    KCLU wrote:
    Karl wrote:I honestly don't know why Kyle isn't swooping in and saving face for vegetarians.
    these wings are tired!

    Eat more meat.

    You get your energy from carbs mostly, not meat. Meat provides protein (as well as many other important things) which assists in rebuilding your muscles after a workout.

    In the long term, meat gives you energy. It is high in calories and results in a faster metabolism. When your muscles are properly fueled you'll have more energy.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:57 pm

    the responses to everything you just said can be found in my previous posts. there's no point in doing this anymore.

    the way you used the word "kitschy" bothers me, though, I know if you look up the definition it seems like it would be an appropriate word there, but thats not actually how its used in practice. it comes from describing art that is corny, its not really the right word for finding ad hominem distasteful. but anyway, saying you're awful at arguing isn't really too harsh of a "direct personal attack". okay, i'll soften it to: you are currently doing an awful job of arguing.

    edit: oh, and btw, all my posts make me look hella cool Happy Matt
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Newmantopia on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:03 pm

    Karl wrote:the responses to everything you just said can be found in my previous posts. there's no point in doing this anymore.

    the way you used the word "kitschy" bothers me, though, I know if you look up the definition it seems like it would be an appropriate word there, but thats not actually how its used in practice. it comes from describing art that is corny, its not really the right word for finding ad hominem distasteful. but anyway, saying you're awful at arguing isn't really too harsh of a "direct personal attack". okay, i'll soften it to: you are currently doing an awful job of arguing.

    edit: oh, and btw, all my posts make me look hella cool Happy Matt

    I was applying the word kitschy with its customary use in mind.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Karl on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:05 pm

    Newmantopia wrote:
    Karl wrote:the responses to everything you just said can be found in my previous posts. there's no point in doing this anymore.

    the way you used the word "kitschy" bothers me, though, I know if you look up the definition it seems like it would be an appropriate word there, but thats not actually how its used in practice. it comes from describing art that is corny, its not really the right word for finding ad hominem distasteful. but anyway, saying you're awful at arguing isn't really too harsh of a "direct personal attack". okay, i'll soften it to: you are currently doing an awful job of arguing.

    edit: oh, and btw, all my posts make me look hella cool Happy Matt

    I was applying the word kitschy with its customary use in mind.

    k, well, then you used it wrong.
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    Re: Saw...

    Post  Meow on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:08 pm

    Newmantopia wrote:In the long term, meat gives you energy. It is high in calories and results in a faster metabolism. When your muscles are properly fueled you'll have more energy.

    Yes, it will raise your protein metabolism. Protein can be broken down by your body into glucose which will give you energy, but it's much more efficient for your body to break down carbs into glucose. So in turn, you will be wasting your caloric intake as energy since it will burn calories just to provide your body with glucose from protein. Downing carbs is the obvious choice for energy, protein is best taken after or just before a workout to assist with the post-workout muscle building.


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